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Politics 2007

 
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xAndyx
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PostPosted: 02.13.2007 1:49 am    Post subject: Politics 2007 Reply with quote

Obama in 2008. I seem to remember telling someone this would happen in 2004.
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Danny Baldwin
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PostPosted: 02.13.2007 6:25 am    Post subject: Re: Politics 2007 Reply with quote

xAndyx wrote:
Obama in 2008. I seem to remember telling someone this would happen in 2004.


I don't really have anything to add to this, but I will remind you that he's currently trailing Hillary by double-digits in just about every poll. And let's not forget that he only won his state election by a relatively small margin.



The dirt the Clintons have dished on Obama already is just the beginning.



I'm most fascinated by the fact that he's thought of as more important than he actually is considered by the public, simply because the media is in love with him.



I think he's a decent speaker, but lacks the international/foreign experience to rival Hillary for the Democratic nomination. I suppose I like the guy's idealism, but outside of that, I'm not a fan.



Across the aisle, I'm equally displeased with Giuliani and McCain. Romney's okay, from what I've heard of him, but I fear a Bush rehash. If Tom Tancredo had a chance, I would be behind him.
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xAndyx
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PostPosted: 02.13.2007 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I respectfully disagree. I have seen many polls that have Obama tied with Hillary, and nearly all of them show her falling and him on the rise. I agree that he may not be the most experienced, but is Hillary Clinton really all that much better in that respect? I could be proven wrong, but I believe his outlook on a new type of politics combined with his ability to voice strong ideals and reach across party divides will get him the nomination. If he doesn't win the nomination, I don't know who I'll vote for to be honest.
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Danny Baldwin
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PostPosted: 02.14.2007 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

xAndyx wrote:
I respectfully disagree. I have seen many polls that have Obama tied with Hillary, and nearly all of them show her falling and him on the rise.


I'd like to see one of these.



xAndyx wrote:
I agree that he may not be the most experienced, but is Hillary Clinton really all that much better in that respect?


She's been in the Senate longer, has won elections by a much stronger margin, and her husband was the President for eight years. I'd say that's about as qualified as you can be.
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beltmann
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PostPosted: 02.14.2007 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry, Andy, but Danny's right about the polls--even among black voters, Obama trails Clinton by large numbers (up to 40%). He's climbing a very steep hill.



Danny, am I right in assuming your displeasure regarding McCain and Guiliani lies with their fairly moderate policies? I'm the other way... they are the only two Repubs that I can stomach. I like Romney in the sense that he's a man of conviction and smarts, but I think his policies would lead to another 4 disastrous years.
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Danny Baldwin
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PostPosted: 02.15.2007 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

beltmann wrote:
Danny, am I right in assuming your displeasure regarding McCain and Guiliani lies with their fairly moderate policies? I'm the other way... they are the only two Repubs that I can stomach. I like Romney in the sense that he's a man of conviction and smarts, but I think his policies would lead to another 4 disastrous years.


Essentially. I think that McCain would be another foreign-policy disaster, much in the same way that Bush has been. Guiliani might be able to clean things up internationally, but I don't see him as a candidate with much experience in domestic policies (which he was not really exposed to as Mayor in the way that, say, a Senator would be).



I agree completely on Romney. It's getting late enough in the game to speculate about primary wins, but I still don't think a true Republican candidate has emerged. (Romney could shape up, though, seeing as more and more people are learning his name.)
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xAndyx
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PostPosted: 02.15.2007 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danny Baldwin wrote:


I'd like to see one of these.




I really thought I saw something on CNN when Obama announced that had them nearly equal but I must be wrong here.



PS: Here's a poll I found that gives me some credit.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/Political%20Tracking/Democratic%20Primaries/DemocraticPresidentialPrimary.htm



Danny Baldwin wrote:


She's been in the Senate longer, has won elections by a much stronger margin, and her husband was the President for eight years. I'd say that's about as qualified as you can be.




So just being in the Senate and having strong elections makes you experienced? No majority of bills have to be sponsored? You can simply warm your seat and open your arms to the presidency?This is just buying into the idea that because she is a Clinton she should be elected. I, for one, am ready for something new. I agree that Obama doesn't have the Senate experience, but I think his fresh ideas, openness to the people, speaking abilities, and education more than qualify him. Although in the end we will pass up the young, fresh candidate who many actually get something done in exchange for someone who will make a step in the right direction.[/url]
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Danny Baldwin
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PostPosted: 02.15.2007 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xAndyx wrote:
PS: Here's a poll I found that gives me some credit.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/Political%20Tracking/Democratic%20Primaries/DemocraticPresidentialPrimary.htm




A shaky 5% is still a large hill to climb, but I don't really buy into Rasmussen Polls. (Just look at the consistency: the sampling-size allowed for Obama to climb a full 8% in one week.)



Also, one must consider the improbability that Al Gore does end up running. If he does not, his votes will, likely--by association--shift over to Clinton.



xAndyx wrote:
So just being in the Senate and having strong elections makes you experienced? No majority of bills have to be sponsored? You can simply warm your seat and open your arms to the presidency?This is just buying into the idea that because she is a Clinton she should be elected. I, for one, am ready for something new. I agree that Obama doesn't have the Senate experience, but I think his fresh ideas, openness to the people, speaking abilities, and education more than qualify him. Although in the end we will pass up the young, fresh candidate who many actually get something done in exchange for someone who will make a step in the right direction.


He hasn't said anything of concrete substance... ever. Clinton at least has some degree of a Presidential Plan--I admit that being one of those who think her husband ran a terrible Presidency--and it's fairly workable. Obama is a great idealist and speaks of his idealism well, but hasn't the current administration been destroyed by idealistic values (in opposite areas to those of Obama, of course)? I chalk Obama's lack of substance up to a lack of experience; how has he shown that he understands how to run a country?



I think you have to admit that Clinton, at the very least, understands the fundamentals of the position far more than Obama does at this point. But I'm not too worried about him. He may win a few state-primaries, but beyond that, I don't think he has a chance in the world. Given the famous Clinton campaigning tricks--just wait until the "radical Indonesian imams" who taught Obama the values of Islam come out to play--he'll be swatted like a fly come time.
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xAndyx
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Location: Platteville, WI

PostPosted: 02.15.2007 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would argue that if you read Obama's book you'd see he has a decent plan, but we should probably agree to disagree on this point, because I doubt we will ever persuade each other.



I don't understand why there would be a problem if Obama was taught Islam. For one he is a Christian and your claims seem outlandish to me, but to say he will be swatted for this belief...that's quite offensive. I think a person with any form of an Islamic background should be welcomed right now, not scorned. Maybe then people would work on understanding this culture instead of trying to find the holes in it. I know, however, that you did not mean to come off in this way, and I understand a lot of the points you are making.[/quote]
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Danny Baldwin
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PostPosted: 02.15.2007 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xAndyx wrote:


I don't understand why there would be a problem if Obama was taught Islam. For one he is a Christian and your claims seem outlandish to me, but to say he will be swatted for this belief...that's quite offensive. I think a person with any form of an Islamic background should be welcomed right now, not scorned. Maybe then people would work on understanding this culture instead of trying to find the holes in it. I know, however, that you did not mean to come off in this way, and I understand a lot of the points you are making.


Yeah, I wasn't saying anything either way about that. What the Clinton camp is trying to divulge is that Obama is actually not and Christian and was taught by imams who are now responsible for radical Islamist militant groups. And when the Clintons run smear-campaigns, they are usually pretty effective.
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xAndyx
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PostPosted: 02.15.2007 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope she doesn't stoop to this level.
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