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The Third M?n
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Joined: 09 Sep 2003
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Location: Chasing Stef around post-war Vienna

PostPosted: 02.20.2004 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the night watchman wrote:
Heh heh. Don't have much choice when someone challenges "Back up your opinion or you shall feel my wrath, boy." Wink


I'll try to be nicer to you from now on, my friend.
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The Third M?n
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Joined: 09 Sep 2003
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Location: Chasing Stef around post-war Vienna

PostPosted: 02.20.2004 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danny Baldwin wrote:
Signs - PRO



This is surprising! Why did you love it so much?
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the night watchman
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Joined: 27 Jun 2003
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PostPosted: 02.21.2004 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

beltmann wrote:


Robocop - pro - great sci-fi action/social commentary



A rare combination that. I had a college professor who loved to beat up on modern cinema, and one of his favorite whipping boys was RoboCop (I'd wager because of the title), which, naturally, he hadn't seen. I don't remember what lead up to it, but he asked me if I actually liked RoboCop. I told him I did, and that it wasn't just a silly sci-fi shoot 'em up, but also a very funny social satire. He just looked at me in sad disbelief. Ah, well, his loss.
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beltmann
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PostPosted: 02.21.2004 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the night watchman wrote:
I had a college professor who loved to beat up on modern cinema


Do you find that many take this position almost as a badge, a shorthand for "credibility" that they wear on their sleeve? Personally, I don't think cinema is any worse than ever before--we might have to look harder for good stuff, but it's definitely there, in abundance. As for RoboCop, I think it might be my favorite Verhoeven. He tried a very similar mix of action and satire with Starship Troopers, which I felt was only mildly successful. The CGI hasn't dated well, either.

Eric
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the night watchman
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PostPosted: 02.21.2004 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

beltmann wrote:


Do you find that many take this position almost as a badge, a shorthand for "credibility" that they wear on their sleeve?


I think for some. But I think others really just don't adapt well to new trends or modes in any art form, particularly, I've noticed, in music.

beltmann wrote:
Personally, I don't think cinema is any worse than ever before--we might have to look harder for good stuff, but it's definitely there, in abundance.


I totally agree. I think the real difference is that a significantly greater number of movies are produced today than twenty years ago, or forty, or in the "Golden Age," resulting in, naturally, a greater amount of crap.
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Danny Baldwin
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PostPosted: 02.21.2004 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Third M?n wrote:
Danny Baldwin wrote:
Signs - PRO



This is surprising! Why did you love it so much?


Ironically, I've been bashing Ebert on The Passion already, but I agree with him on this one. Maybe my referring you guys to his review has something to do with the fact I'm missing some cheesy and mediocre Friday night television, but, so be it.
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beltmann
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Joined: 26 Jun 2003
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Location: West Bend, WI

PostPosted: 02.21.2004 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the night watchman wrote:
beltmann wrote:


Do you find that many take this position almost as a badge, a shorthand for "credibility" that they wear on their sleeve?


I think for some. But I think others really just don't adapt well to new trends or modes in any art form, particularly, I've noticed, in music.


No doubt you're right. But let's again think about the example of your professor and RoboCop--there was nothing new about that picture, if we assume that your professor was familiar with the long tradition of action in cinema, and the long tradition of satire in the arts. (Not to mention the tradition of using sci-fi as a basis for allegory or satire. Wonder what he thought of Metropolis.)

the night watchman wrote:
beltmann wrote:
Personally, I don't think cinema is any worse than ever before--we might have to look harder for good stuff, but it's definitely there, in abundance.


I totally agree. I think the real difference is that a significantly greater number of movies are produced today than twenty years ago, or forty, or in the "Golden Age," resulting in, naturally, a greater amount of crap.


And a wider range of types. And a wider range of disagreement about what qualifies as crap.

Eric
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the night watchman
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PostPosted: 02.21.2004 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

beltmann wrote:
But let's again think about the example of your professor and RoboCop--there was nothing new about that picture, if we assume that your professor was familiar with the long tradition of action in cinema, and the long tradition of satire in the arts.


Well, knowing that professor, I think it's safe to assume he actually was putting on an air of sophistication by mocking a movie with the ridiculous title RoboCop.
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The Third M?n
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Joined: 09 Sep 2003
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Location: Chasing Stef around post-war Vienna

PostPosted: 02.21.2004 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

beltmann wrote:
He tried a very similar mix of action and satire with Starship Troopers, which I felt was only mildly successful. The CGI hasn't dated well, either.



I'd rather have Starship Troopers than Robocop. A guilty pleasure of mine, and I love it.
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matt header
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Joined: 26 Jun 2003
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Location: Milwaukee, WI

PostPosted: 02.21.2004 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
the night watchman wrote:

I had a college professor who loved to beat up on modern cinema

Do you find that many take this position almost as a badge, a shorthand for "credibility" that they wear on their sleeve?


At the school I go to (UWM) definitely. I like the film program here, but some professors have the disposition that if it isn't "experimental" (by which they seem to assume, if it has anyone remotely famous or is even remotely successful) it fails as art. They desperately try to put on an air of avant-garde electicism, and while it's important that we notice and explore that field, ignoring the possibilities of narrative cinema is equally as stupid and arrogant as watching only Biker Boyz and calling anything French crap.

Maybe I'm just bitter that I have three projects do this week.
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The Third M?n
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Joined: 09 Sep 2003
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Location: Chasing Stef around post-war Vienna

PostPosted: 02.21.2004 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

matt header wrote:


Maybe I'm just bitter that I have three projects do this week.


Which ones, may I ask? Just curious.
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beltmann
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PostPosted: 02.21.2004 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

matt header wrote:
They desperately try to put on an air of avant-garde electicism, and while it's important that we notice and explore that field, ignoring the possibilities of narrative cinema is equally as stupid and arrogant as watching only Biker Boyz and calling anything French crap.


I completely agree. While too many people dismiss experimental fare, it is equally foolish to dismiss narrative cinema. To ignore the possibilities of narrative cinema is no different than ignoring the possibilities of narrative literature--would those same professors so carelessly dismiss, say, Twain, Melville, James, Hawthorne, Conrad, Hardy, or Fitzgerald?

By the way, I've heard this charge leveled against the UWM program many times... but usually from students unwilling to extend their own interest into avant-garde fields. I've always assumed the criticism ought to be taken with a grain of salt. Hearing it from you, though, suggests there might be more truth to the charge than I originally thought.

Eric
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beltmann
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PostPosted: 02.21.2004 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Third M?n wrote:
I'd rather have Starship Troopers than Robocop. A guilty pleasure of mine, and I love it.


I guess I might consider Starship Troopers a guilty pleasure, but Robocop is a genuinely good picture--no guilt involved whatsoever.

Eric
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The Third M?n
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PostPosted: 02.21.2004 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

beltmann wrote:


I guess I might consider Starship Troopers a guilty pleasure, but Robocop is a genuinely good picture--no guilt involved whatsoever.

Eric


What about Robocop 3? Now that was dreadful.
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beltmann
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PostPosted: 02.21.2004 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Third M?n wrote:
What about Robocop 3? Now that was dreadful.


Never saw that one... but I'd say "dreadful" applies to Robocop 2, despite having been directed by Irvin Kershner.

Eric
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