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The Third M?n
Studio Exec


Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 575
Location: Chasing Stef around post-war Vienna

PostPosted: 02.21.2004 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Feel like discussing Total Recall? I'm sure you love that one, beltmann.
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matt header
Studio Exec


Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 623
Location: Milwaukee, WI

PostPosted: 02.22.2004 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Which ones, may I ask? Just curious.


Certainly: I have to complete a looped found footage film, starting with a random five frames and building off of that; I must make three prints of black-and-white photography that make compositional use of light; and I must write a paper comparing the use of duration in different films we've seen so far this semester. They're all actually very fun, and I don't really mind doing them (although it's certainly a bit stressful).

Quote:
By the way, I've heard this charge leveled against the UWM program many times... but usually from students unwilling to extend their own interest into avant-garde fields. I've always assumed the criticism ought to be taken with a grain of salt. Hearing it from you, though, suggests there might be more truth to the charge than I originally thought.



You're absolutely right that a lot of students who hate the film program here are unwilling to incorporate experimental ideas into their works. (And, to be honest, I really do enjoy most of my film classes.) But there have been a number of times when a professor of mine has distinctly stated that a film without avant-garde elements is necessarily uncreative and pointless. I'm glad they take the time to present us with less prominent techniques; but I'm not happy that they sometimes limit us to them, not allowing us to use the experimental elements in order to heighten a narrative film. To be sure, not all of the professors do this, but since the ones who do are asking me to make my own movie but dictated by their own preferences, it can really piss me off.

Go Panthers!
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Al_Bundy_007
Key Grip


Joined: 28 Feb 2004
Posts: 33
Location: GA

PostPosted: 02.28.2004 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 25th Hour - hmm

Batman Returns - pro

The Elephant Man - pro

The Evil Dead - PRO

The Evil Dead II - PRO

The Fast and the Furious - con

Forrest Gump - hmm

The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen - CON

The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring - PRO

The Man With The Golden Gun- hmm

Monsters Inc - hmm

Mulholland Dr. - pro

Robocop - con

Shrek - hmm

Signs - hmm

Star Wars: A New Hope - pro

Torque - CON

Who Framed Roger Rabbit? - PRO

i dunno if i did that right or not i havent seen them all
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The Third M?n
Studio Exec


Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 575
Location: Chasing Stef around post-war Vienna

PostPosted: 02.28.2004 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fourth list!

Airplane

L'Atalante

The Bridge on the River Kwai

Catch Me If You Can

Dial M for Murder

Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb

Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom

Finding Nemo

Goodfellas

The Great Dictator

Magnolia

Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World

Memento

Minority Report

Nightmare Before Christmas

Office Space

On the Waterfront

Paths of Glory

Requiem for a Dream

Saving Private Ryan

Scarface (1983)

Sleuth

Three Colors: Blue

Three Colors: Red

True Lies

Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me
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Al_Bundy_007
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Joined: 28 Feb 2004
Posts: 33
Location: GA

PostPosted: 02.28.2004 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As before, I'll do the ones I've seen...

Airplane - pro

Catch Me If You Can - hmm

Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb - pro

Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom - pro

Finding Nemo - pro

Goodfellas - PRO

Magnolia - hmm

Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World - pro

Memento - pro

Minority Report - hmm

Nightmare Before Christmas - pro

Office Space - hmm

Saving Private Ryan

Scarface (1983) - PRO

True Lies - pro
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beltmann
Studio Exec


Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 2341
Location: West Bend, WI

PostPosted: 02.28.2004 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Airplane - pro

L'Atalante - PRO - one of my favorite pictures all-time

The Bridge on the River Kwai - pro

Catch Me If You Can - hmm

Dial M for Murder - pro

Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb - PRO

Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom - pro

Finding Nemo - pro

Goodfellas - pro

The Great Dictator - pro

Magnolia - pro

Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World - PRO

Memento - hmm - leaning pro

Minority Report - hmm

Nightmare Before Christmas - pro

Office Space - hmm

On the Waterfront - pro

Paths of Glory - PRO

Requiem for a Dream - PRO

Saving Private Ryan - pro

Scarface (1983) - con

Sleuth - n/a

Three Colors: Blue - pro

Three Colors: Red - PRO

True Lies - hmm

Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me - CON

By the way, welcome to the forum Al Bundy!

Eric
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matt header
Studio Exec


Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 623
Location: Milwaukee, WI

PostPosted: 02.28.2004 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alrighty...

Airplane - PRO (the nadir of stupid comedy)

The Bridge on the River Kwai - pro

Catch Me if You Can - pro

Dr. Strangelove... - PRO

Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom - hmm

Finding Nemo - pro

Goodfellas - pro (not one of Scorsese's best, as many say, but still good)

Magnolia - PRO (one of my favorite movies of the 1990's)

Master and Commander - PRO (yeah, that's right, I'll stand by that opinion)

Memento - pro

Minority Report - pro

Nightmare Before Christmas - pro

Office Space - pro

On the Waterfront - pro

Paths of Glory - PRO (there are only a few Kubricks I don't like)

Requiem for a Dream - pro

Saving Private Ryan - PRO (Spielberg's Americana and use of stereotypes can be annoying, but it's a monstrously powerful movie)

Scarface (1983) - hmm (have yet to see the Paul Muni version)

True Lies - pro

Great, you chose a list that makes it look like I love every movie.
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beltmann
Studio Exec


Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 2341
Location: West Bend, WI

PostPosted: 02.28.2004 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

matt header wrote:
Airplane - PRO (the nadir of stupid comedy)

Master and Commander - PRO (yeah, that's right, I'll stand by that opinion)

Scarface (1983) - hmm (have yet to see the Paul Muni version)



What separates the best ZAZ comedies from others in the genre is that they expose genre cliches we didn't even know were there. The laughter is deeply sincere.

I'm with you all the way on Master and Commander. It compares favorably with the very best, smartest adventure pictures.

I much prefer the 1932 Scarface to the 1983.

Eric
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the night watchman
Studio Exec


Joined: 27 Jun 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Dark, run-down shack by the graveyard.

PostPosted: 02.28.2004 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Airplane - PRO

L'Atalante - n/a

The Bridge on the River Kwai - hmm (I know you all will drive me out of the forums with torches and pitchforks for that rating, but I was never overwhelmed by this one)

Catch Me If You Can - pro

Dial M for Murder - pro

Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb - PRO

Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom - pro

Finding Nemo - pro

Goodfellas - PRO

The Great Dictator - hmm+ (never quite connected with this one)

Magnolia - hmm+/pro-

Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World - n/a

Memento - pro

Minority Report - pro+

Nightmare Before Christmas - hmm+

Office Space - PRO

On the Waterfront - hmm+ (man, this is a dark day for me)

Paths of Glory - n/a

Requiem for a Dream - pro

Saving Private Ryan - pro

Scarface (1983) - PRO

Sleuth - PRO

Three Colors: Blue - n/a

Three Colors: Red - n/a

True Lies - hmm

Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me - PRO
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The Third M?n
Studio Exec


Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 575
Location: Chasing Stef around post-war Vienna

PostPosted: 02.28.2004 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

beltmann wrote:
Sleuth - n/a



I am astounded. Seriously Eric, are you telling me you haven't seen this gem of a film, with two of the finest Britsh actors of all time, Laurence Olivier and Michael Caine? Sleuth is a classic cat-and-mouse thriller, with a twist at the beginning, middle and end. It's a masterpiece and one of my all-time favourites. See it and chime in later to tell me how brilliant it was.
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the night watchman
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Location: Dark, run-down shack by the graveyard.

PostPosted: 02.28.2004 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a little startled Eric hasn't seen it, too. I'm so disillusioned now.
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The Third M?n
Studio Exec


Joined: 09 Sep 2003
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Location: Chasing Stef around post-war Vienna

PostPosted: 02.28.2004 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do you love so much about it, night watchman?
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the night watchman
Studio Exec


Joined: 27 Jun 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Dark, run-down shack by the graveyard.

PostPosted: 02.28.2004 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many movies suffer the "too-many plot twists" syndrome, but Sleuth's plotting is absolutely perfect. In fact, it's almost churlish to call its progressions "plot twists." It perfectly balances humor and character with serious-as-a-heart-attack social commentary without lapsing into heavy-handedness or preachiness, resulting in a truly devastating conclusion. And, of course, it's great watching Laurence Olivier and (a very young) Michael Caine working together. The somewhat slow first half definitely pays off in the second. What do you like about it, Mr. Lime?
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The Third M?n
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Joined: 09 Sep 2003
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Location: Chasing Stef around post-war Vienna

PostPosted: 02.28.2004 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh my, I don't even know where to start.

First of all, the film's "limitations" [its sole setting -- the manor and its surroundings --, plus only two actors] are instead turned into its main virtues. Its minimalist approach works rather wonderfully, I have to say.

The humour. Sleuth is monstrously funny. Its commentaries on sex, marriage and class status, plus the infamous "sheep rapist" line are given at the right time and have a lasting effect. The fact that Olivier was a person who dominated the English language to perfection also helps a lot -- seriously, just listening to him talk is oddly delightful. Genius!

The acting. Needless to say, Sleuth is magnificently acted by its two actors. What I like most about it, however, is that pervading sense of balance that there is. While in the film, the two main characters have their ups and downs -- at one moment Olivier is reigning while eventually it is Caine who seems to be all over him --, the equilibrium of the actors is perfect. They're both as good, and that's a very impressive thing, seeing how Caine had just barely broke through and Olivier was a complete veteran in that field. Caine and Olivier are not trying to outshine each other, they're not competing - they're simply doing their jobs, and with equal amount of expertise. I mean, who wouldve thought that Caine could hold his own against the so-labelled greatest actor of all time? While watching it, I constantly got the feeling that the director was aware of what he was doing, and that he was able to comfortably control all the actors and scenarios.

The music. I love the score for this film. It seems to seamlessly capture the atmosphere, what with its mischievous-like tones and all. I love it.

The directing. Mankiewicz's last film is very finely directed. The tempo that he provides to the film is top-notch -- the viewer is always intrigued by what's going to happen next, trying to guess. The twists and turns are, upon a first viewing, rather unexpected, and he narrates the entire thing with subtlety and care, without falling into the traps of obviousness. Sleuth takes the familiar phrase "Nothing is what it seems" and completely turns it upside down. Sleuth is a film that fools, deliberately and elegantly at the same time, disorienting and manipulating the audience, as though misguiding us through a labyrinth. It is not easy to know what really is going on in the minds of the two central characters; we don't often know whether what they're saying or doing is true or false. Tables are turned and roles are reversed - in the end, the result is nothing short of stunning. A charade of great moments, impressive inventions, games within games, rotten lies and half-truths, Sleuth tricks and bamboozles with admirable finesse.

The symbolism. Is it a coincidence that Olivier's character has to pay before going into his room? I think not. Think about his impotence.

The screenplay. The screenplay of Sleuth, written by Anthony Shaffer himself, is one of the best in cinema history. Intricate, carefully structured and layered with a profound criticism pointing at the upper class, the screenplay contains some of the richest and most elaborate dialogue that I have ever come to witness. The dialogue sparkles with dark humour and subtle irony, keeping our interest high while revealing key plot points that will prove to be crucial later on.

The message of the film. "He who laughs last laughs best." It is greatly evoked.

I'm sure there's loads more, but this is all I can think off the top of my head. I'd love to go even deeper, actually.
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beltmann
Studio Exec


Joined: 26 Jun 2003
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PostPosted: 02.28.2004 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the night watchman wrote:
I'm a little startled Eric hasn't seen it, too. I'm so disillusioned now.


Can't see everything. But I'll try to see this one soon, I promise.

Eric
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