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How do you feel about gay marriage?
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stefanieduckwitz
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Joined: 07 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: 03.23.2004 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, quite a debate we got going here, and very interesting to read/watch... But I don't really understand where you, Danny, are coming from? None of this makes sense!
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Danny Baldwin
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PostPosted: 03.23.2004 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

beltmann wrote:
Are you suggesting that all new workers come from the gay ranks? Are there no unemployed heterosexuals? And why will more gay workers result in more gay marriage? Do homosexuals only find romance in the workplace?


Okay, misunderstanding here. 1 in every 10 people are gay, meaning ROUGHLY 1 in every 10 workers are gay. With gay people will come gay marriage. I'm pointing out the correlation between taxes and workers ,and pointing out how the positions may be lost, in the certain cases I've explained, actually resulting in a tax-loss. This may seem ludicrous on paper, and it's partially failing because of my unability to explain it, but it's oft experienced.
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matt header
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PostPosted: 03.24.2004 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Well, there are two scenarios I can think of where we would lose money tax-wise, first and foremost.



1) A gay couple decides to have a child, resulting in one quitting work. Here, we now have a single-income to tax, as opposed to duel.



2) A less likely situation is presuming the couple hasn't already moved in together, and does because of there marriage. Duel homeowners' tax to single. You may say that this can happen at any time in their relationship, and I wouldn't argue, but marriage definitely promotes it.





How are either of those predicaments different than if it happened to a heterosexual couple? A straight couple could decide to have a couple one quits work. Single-income to tax.



Single couple decides to get married. Moves in together. Dual homeowners' tax.



Quote:
but all I'm saying is that having children only serves to soldify your love for one another, and it usually makes it stronger.




Another thing that serves to solidify your love for one another: marriage. Even more so than having children. How can we ban gay marriage on the grounds that they'd be unable to have children, which would be a strengthening of their love, when getting married in itself is a strengthening of their love?



Quote:
i am not against it but they should call it something else instead of marriage. marriage is with a man and an womam.




Merriam Webster has appended a new definition to marriage: "the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage." If the dictionary can do so, why can't society? Wink
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Danny Baldwin
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PostPosted: 03.24.2004 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

matt header wrote:
How are either of those predicaments different than if it happened to a heterosexual couple? A straight couple could decide to have a couple one quits work. Single-income to tax.


However, we've been honoring heterosexual marriage for years, but we can stop gay marriage. Our system is built in such a way where we can handle this, but not that.
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the night watchman
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PostPosted: 03.24.2004 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So gay couples ought to bear the burden of mantaining economic status quo? It might be polite to ask them if they're willing to trade equality for this responsiblity.
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Danny Baldwin
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PostPosted: 03.24.2004 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well this is all determined by your definition of marriage, but, legally, the defense of marriage act, which was signed by a liberal, is what I'm going by in this debate. I personally think those who deserve most to be doing this are the ones creating children, and raising families.
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the night watchman
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PostPosted: 03.24.2004 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, my wife and I, since we're not creating children and raising a family, will divorce post haste, so as not to tarnish the word "marriage," and get in line with the gays and lesbians for a civil union. God bless America.
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Danny Baldwin
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PostPosted: 03.24.2004 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm simply saying that the only ones making the families are the heterosexual couples, so therefore they're the ones who are in the position to get the benefit. This has nothing to do with divorce or whether homosexuality is "right" as some lame moralists will tell you.
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Tooky Cat
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PostPosted: 03.24.2004 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh my, how unfortuante that I've missed this sticky topic! I do so love controversial debate!



My first point: Why does it matter whether gay couples are procreating or not? Isn't the world overpopulated the way it is? That's one thing I don't understand about China, where gay just "doesn't exist". You'd think, given their cramped space, they'd be promoting homosexuality. JK. But quite frankly, why does marriage have to revolve arond families and children? Marriage is a commitment between two people who are in love to spend their lives with and to love each other. It's not mandatory that they have kids.



I have yet to hear an entirely logical argument against gay marriage. Bush will have us believe that it will destroy the "sanctity" or marriage. If you ask me, peaking divorce rates and Elvis' Chapel of Love already did that. Coincidentally, those are entirely heterosexual elements.



As for economic factors, I really can't see allowing more people to marry causing any sort of economic crisis, just a lot of smiles.
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the night watchman
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PostPosted: 03.24.2004 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But gay couples can raise children too, through adoption or artificial insemination. I suppose I don't understand how a family with same-sex parents differs on a macroscopic scale economically or socially from a family with heterosexual parents.
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beltmann
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PostPosted: 03.24.2004 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the night watchman wrote:
But gay couples can raise children too, through adoption or artificial insemination. I suppose I don't understand how a family with same-sex parents differs on a macroscopic scale economically or socially from a family with heterosexual parents.


You're right, of course, but too many people aren't willing to look at the issue on a macroscopic level. They can't see society for their own backyard.



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Tooky Cat
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PostPosted: 03.24.2004 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just out of curiosity, what were the arguments against interracial marriage when that was illega? This seems somewhat similar.
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the night watchman
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PostPosted: 03.24.2004 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The general objections were 1) God did not intend for the races to mix, which is why he place them on different continents, and 2) non-whites were inferior to whites, and mixing white blood with non-white blood would "delute" the race. It's difficult to believe there was a time when people felt comfortable coming out and expressing such convictions. I hope twenty or thirty years down the line similar objects to gays will seem just as strange.
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the night watchman
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PostPosted: 03.24.2004 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One other thing: There are white separatists and Afrocentrist today that believe that all races are inherently different and incompatible. They cite post-desegregation social strife as proof. It's strange how they don't consider their own xenophobia and racism as contributing factors to racial strife.
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beltmann
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PostPosted: 03.24.2004 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the night watchman wrote:
One other thing: There are white separatists and Afrocentrist today that believe that all races are inherently different and incompatible. They cite post-desegregation social strife as proof. It's strange how they don't consider their own xenophobia and racism as contributing factors to racial strife.


Precisely.



Eric
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