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the night watchman
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PostPosted: 01.08.2005 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your input, Eric and Danny.



Danny Baldwin wrote:
Now, we have a school asking twelve-year-olds to "consider" whether they're gay or not, in the U.S.




I haven't heard anything about this. Can you direct me to a source or two?
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Danny Baldwin
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PostPosted: 01.09.2005 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the night watchman wrote:
I haven't heard anything about this. Can you direct me to a source or two?


Michael Savage dedicated an entire program to it, and I'm browsing Google, but not finding anything...So typical of the mainstream media.
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beltmann
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PostPosted: 01.09.2005 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danny Baldwin wrote:
So typical of the mainstream media.


And yet a quick Google instantly directed me to all kinds of neo-Nazi websites. Darn that liberal media and their love for Jew-haters!



Eric
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matt header
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PostPosted: 01.09.2005 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL!



Quote:
Again, I teach my kids that being gay is not right. (THIS IS MY OPINION! Don't start harassing me about my views, please.)




Indeed, that it is your opinion, and that's fair enough. But teaching your children to automatically steer away from/disrespect/look down upon/whatever other people simply because they have a sexuality that differs from yours? Instilling that opinion in your own children and not giving them the liberty to decide for themselves? How is that different than a pro-gay activist coming up to you and telling you that you're wrong, that you have to change your beliefs? Having your own opinion is indeed necessary and something we must respect no matter what that opinion is; you should try enacting the same sort of liberty towards your children.



Quote:
I think the very problem is that they shed too much light on the issue. For me, I'm not bothered by being taught about homosexuality in society, but they make it seem like such a big deal.




Sort of like President Bush and his whole Constitutional-ban-on-gay-marriage thing?
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Danny Baldwin
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PostPosted: 01.10.2005 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

matt header wrote:
Sort of like President Bush and his whole Constitutional-ban-on-gay-marriage thing?


I would agree. I am not for a constitutional ammendment.
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iverson_boss
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PostPosted: 01.12.2005 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all... Sorry for not being to answer all of your replies.







Quote:
Instilling that opinion in your own children and not giving them the liberty to decide for themselves? How is that different than a pro-gay activist coming up to you and telling you that you're wrong, that you have to change your beliefs? Having your own opinion is indeed necessary and something we must respect no matter what that opinion is; you should try enacting the same sort of liberty towards your children.







I teach my children what I think (in this case it's what I know) is right. Also, this is exactly what I meant by saying that the "pro-gay" activisits are trying to presuade my kids by saying that being gay is okay. Please don't tell me how to bring up my kids and what I should let them do. Exactly what I was talking about.
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beltmann
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PostPosted: 01.12.2005 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iverson_boss wrote:
I teach my children what I think (in this case it's what I know)


Please don't read this question as an attack, as I'm genuinely curious: How would you respond if a so-called "pro-gay activist" said that they don't just think that homosexuality is normal, but that they know it to be true?



Eric
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Last edited by beltmann on 01.12.2005 10:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jim Harper
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PostPosted: 01.12.2005 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iverson_boss wrote:
Exactly what I was talking about.




Not quite. After all, Matt was arguing in favour of allowing you're children to assess and formulate their own opinion, rather than anything to do with homosexuality.



Also without wishing to be combattive, can you define how you 'know' homosexuality is wrong?
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matt header
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PostPosted: 01.12.2005 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After writing that post, I realized it sounded pretty confrontational, so sorry about that. But I'm not telling you how to raise your kids, and I'm not suggesting I come to your house, or any pro-gay "activists" (doesn't that simply mean people who respect homosexuals and think they deserve the same rights?) come to your house, to try to persuade your children to engage in our beliefs. There is always this important question: what if one of your children ends up gay? It will be through no "fault" of anyone's, and they'll be plagued by feelings of inadequacy and alienation, always wondering what is wrong with them. You don't have to say that being gay is wrong or that being gay is okay; as this post has made evident, it's an extremely divisive issue that's vital in today's society, and I'm simply saying that people should be allowed to decide for themselves what they think on the matter.
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beltmann
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PostPosted: 01.12.2005 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

matt header wrote:
There is always this important question: what if one of your children ends up gay? It will be through no "fault" of anyone's


I may be incorrect, but I assume that iverson_boss is working from the position that homosexuality is not biological, but rather a choice. Or that if it is genetic, it should not be acted upon. His assumptions are different than yours--which of course is what lends this topic its unique blend of biology, theology, morality, and sociology.



Regardless of our assumptions, I think we can agree that someone who believes homosexuality is genetic is not automatically a "gay rights activist"; likewise, someone who believes it's a choice is not automatically a bigot. At least, that's my assumption.
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Danny Baldwin
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PostPosted: 01.12.2005 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

beltmann wrote:
Regardless of our assumptions, I think we can agree that someone who believes homosexuality is genetic is not automatically a "gay rights activist"; likewise, someone who believes it's a choice is not automatically a bigot. At least, that's my assumption.


I would believe that we have more straight pro-gay activists than homosexual ones, in this country, even. Because, really, doesn't any average person simply want to keep to them self and simply be respected. I don't think standard society is really all that biggoted, in nature. Again, we're making something out of little-to-nothing.
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iverson_boss
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PostPosted: 01.13.2005 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
that homosexuality is not biological, but rather a choice




This is exactly what I believe. I believe that people who turn gay are crying out to be noticed by society. (I based this opinion on my study of Psychology at the UW(University of Washington), which is more of a liberal school, than conservative.)



Quote:
Or that if it is genetic, it should not be acted upon




What I noticed when studying this issue is that most of that people who claim that they are gay were,(talking about males) either teased when younger because of their weak body figures or didn't get accepted in to the "cool" crew. Then they claim that they are gay and the "cool" crowd automatically accepts them because they don't want to be the close-minded generation of the past.



Quote:
I would believe that we have more straight pro-gay activists than homosexual ones, in this country, even




This lets the gay kid(s) be in the "cool" crowd. Then when other "outcasts" of society notice that the then,"loser" kid, is hanging out with the "cool" kids they, themselves, claim that they were also born gay and cry out that people should accept them. What I noticed is that the latest trend is to be bi or gay/lesbian.





matt header

Quote:
what if one of your children ends up gay


I like the way you stated this question. I'll repeat it. "What if one of your children ends up gay?" I think that I've talked to my kids enough to see that they won't end up gay. I'm also very glad that you understand that gayness isn't inherited or developed at birth but it's an illness. An illness that can be cured, matter of fact. Gay people need to understand why did they became gay. Once they see this, they will see gayness as more of a, some would say sick, sexual experince rather than a way of life.



Quote:
Regardless of our assumptions, I think we can agree that someone who believes homosexuality is genetic is not automatically a "gay rights activist"; likewise, someone who believes it's a choice is not automatically a bigot. At least, that's my assumption.


I can almost agree with up on this one. If someone believes that homosexuality is genetic and doesn't start telling people that thats the way it is, then he is not a "gay right activist". But if he does then he is an activist.
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Danny Baldwin
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PostPosted: 01.13.2005 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iverson_boss wrote:
This is exactly what I believe. I believe that people who turn gay are crying out to be noticed by society. (I based this opinion on my study of Psychology at the UW(University of Washington), which is more of a liberal school, than conservative.)


But if they're crying out to be noticed, then why are there still closet gays? Why are there still gays that are not happy with the fact that they are not accepted, and as a result, do not discuss their sexuality often?



Honestly, I can go with the theory that gays are made, as a result of misunderstood exposure to the perversion that exists in the world, but crying out to be noticed? I dunno.
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iverson_boss
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PostPosted: 01.13.2005 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim Harper wrote:

Quote:
Also without wishing to be combattive, can you define how you 'know' homosexuality is wrong?




I know that it's wrong, as a life style, because humans aren't animals and shouldn't (excuse the rude phrase) "hump" everything that moves, regardless of the sex, as most animals tend to do. If you don't consider yourself a civilized human being and think that being gay is right, thats your thing. Also, if you don't know whats right and whats wrong thats also your problem. (Not trying to be rude!)
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Danny Baldwin
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PostPosted: 01.13.2005 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iverson_boss wrote:
This lets the gay kid(s) be in the "cool" crowd. Then when other "outcasts" of society notice that the then,"loser" kid, is hanging out with the "cool" kids they, themselves, claim that they were also born gay and cry out that people should accept them. What I noticed is that the latest trend is to be bi or gay/lesbian.


I'm not sure I get your analogy. You make it sound like homosexuality is a desirable characteristic, in society's mind.
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