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iverson_boss
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PostPosted: 01.13.2005 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danny Baldwin wrote
Quote:
But if they're crying out to be noticed, then why are there still closet gays?


Because their are still people who are scared that society will see that they really weren't born gay, but rather turned gay and that society will ask, why are you doing this? and that society won't give them the attention that they are craving for. They are scared that society will see right throught them and put them down even more.



Danny Baldwin wrote:
Quote:
Why are there still gays that are not happy with the fact that they are not accepted, and as a result, do not discuss their sexuality often?




These gays aren't happy because some gays are accepted and that they aren't. They became gay to get accepted and they weren't, thats why they don't discuss that they are gay because they see that it won't help them be accepted anymore.
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iverson_boss
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PostPosted: 01.13.2005 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danny Baldwin wrote:
Quote:
I'm not sure I get your analogy. You make it sound like homosexuality is a desirable characteristic, in society's mind.


Homosexuality is more of a trend, nowadays, rather than people actually having the problem of being gay. Notice how many people turned gay in the last couple of years? Please, please, don't tell me that they just came out of the closet because I don't believe that and know that all of you realize that not all of the gays now were gay their whole lives.
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Danny Baldwin
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PostPosted: 01.13.2005 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iverson_boss wrote:
Danny Baldwin wrote
Quote:
But if they're crying out to be noticed, then why are there still closet gays?


Because their are still people who are scared that society will see that they really weren't born gay, but rather turned gay and that society will ask, why are you doing this? and that society won't give them the attention that they are craving for. They are scared that society will see right throught them and put them down even more.


So then why do they become gay in the first place? If they're not going to get the attention they want, then why bother?



iverson_boss wrote:
These gays aren't happy because some gays are accepted and that they aren't. They became gay to get accepted and they weren't, thats why they don't discuss that they are gay because they see that it won't help them be accepted anymore.


So, if you can become gay at your own free will to become popular, then why can't you change back? If it's basically a means of getting attention, and they don't get it, then why don't they go back to their natural preference to actually be aroused, rather than forcing themselves to be?
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iverson_boss
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PostPosted: 01.13.2005 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danny Baldwin wrote:
Quote:
So then why do they become gay in the first place? If they're not going to get the attention they want, then why bother?




The first couple of gays were actually gay, but now most are trying to get accepted because they saw that gays were being accepted. So, most who claim that they are gay get attention.



Danny Baldwin wrote:
Quote:
So, if you can become gay at your own free will to become popular, then why can't you change back? If it's basically a means of getting attention, and they don't get it, then why don't they go back to their natural preference to actually be aroused, rather than forcing themselves to be?




The thing is that you can change back to your normal self. But, remember that these people are actually sick, not being gay but being shut out of society, so if they change back people are going to give them more shit than they ever got in their life.
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Danny Baldwin
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PostPosted: 01.13.2005 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iverson_boss wrote:
The first couple of gays were actually gay, but now most are trying to get accepted because they saw that gays were being accepted. So, most who claim that they are gay get attention.


When do you think the first gay was born?
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iverson_boss
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PostPosted: 01.13.2005 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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When do you think the first gay was born?


LOL! I believe that that is a rhetorical question. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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beltmann
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PostPosted: 01.13.2005 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iverson_boss wrote:
The first couple of gays were actually gay, but now most are trying to get accepted because they saw that gays were being accepted.


So you would argue that some human beings--even if it is a miniscule fraction--were indeed born gay?



Eric
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beltmann
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PostPosted: 01.13.2005 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iverson_boss wrote:
What I noticed when studying this issue is that most of that people who claim that they are gay were,(talking about males) either teased when younger because of their weak body figures or didn't get accepted in to the "cool" crew. Then they claim that they are gay and the "cool" crowd automatically accepts them because they don't want to be the close-minded generation of the past.



Although I don't believe science has settled this question one way or another, let's assume that homosexuality is indeed a choice. Could you explain to me why consenting adults aren't entitled to that choice?



Secondly, your theory that contemporary gays are only seeking acceptance seems to apply only to modern adolescents. I'm willing to assume that some teens today claim to be gay merely because they seek attention. But how do we explain the large number of middle-aged or even elderly homosexuals? Surely they didn't "become" gay to obtain wider acceptance--by your own admission, their generations were too closed-minded to even consider accepting such a proclamation. Your theory doesn't offer a plausible explanation for the long history of homosexuality throughout the centuries.



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matt header
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PostPosted: 01.13.2005 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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I like the way you stated this question. I'll repeat it. "What if one of your children ends up gay?" I think that I've talked to my kids enough to see that they won't end up gay. I'm also very glad that you understand that gayness isn't inherited or developed at birth but it's an illness. An illness that can be cured, matter of fact. Gay people need to understand why did they became gay. Once they see this, they will see gayness as more of a, some would say sick, sexual experince rather than a way of life.







Whoa, hold the boat here please. You're playing semantics here; I didn't say "end up gay" as a confession that homosexuality is a choice that people make, I said it rhetorically, as in, what if it turns out that one of your children is homosexual, as in, what if it is a genetic trait that one of your children must someday come to grips with? Yes, this is a lot of what ifs, but that's what makes it impossible to say that "homosexuality is wrong;" there is so little that we know about it. I do not understand that gayness is an illness, nor do I believe it, nor do I take very kindly to people labeling it brashly as such when they haven't experienced it and when it's virtually impossible to scientifically classify it. I don't know which homosexuals you talked to in your sociological study, but in my admittedly limited experience every homosexual I've talked to didn't turn gay to be cool; they realized it was part of their personality and became comfortable with that as part of their sexuality. I might as well explain that my sister is a lesbian and that it at one point was an awkward issue with my family, especially my parents; but after more than eight years of discussions -- open, parent to child discussions that aren't counseling or curing or psychiatric assistance -- it has become a natural fact, something with which we are all comfortable. So I don't believe that she has to be cured of anything, and she is not plagued by any illness. I would have rather not incorporated her into this discussion to prove the way I feel, but I felt it necessary; I'm not just playing the role of a "gay rights activist," if you want to call it that, to be a neato tolerant liberal, but because that's how I feel.
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iverson_boss
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PostPosted: 01.13.2005 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like this to be my last comment on this topic because this topic is endless. It is filled with what ifs and other endless factors.



So my last comment is this.



If you don't realize that to be gay is wrong than there is nothing that I can say that will make you change your minds. I tried to show you my point of veiw and I feel that I got it across. But, you can think what you want and not accept what is wrong and what is right, it's your choice. So, as adults, if you don't see what is wrong with being homosexual than I have no more words.



Thanks for the discussion! It was intersting.

Dan
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beltmann
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PostPosted: 01.13.2005 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iverson_boss wrote:
I would like this to be my last comment on this topic because this topic is endless. It is filled with what ifs and other endless factors.


Of course, the fact that this topic is endless is exactly what makes it worth discussing.



Eric
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beltmann
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PostPosted: 01.13.2005 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iverson_boss wrote:
But, you can think what you want and not accept what is wrong and what is right, it's your choice.


I believe in moral absolutes, but I don't believe that homosexuality has been proven, beyond doubt, to be a violation of those that I recognize. Does that mean I willingly tolerate a behavior that is "wrong"? I think saying that is predicated upon a mighty big assumption about a behavior that, by your own admission, is still loaded with what-ifs and endless questions. Saying that would be an oversimplification no different than saying, "Anyone who condemns homosexuality does so out of hate, stereotypes, and misinformation."



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the night watchman
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PostPosted: 01.13.2005 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iverson_boss wrote:


If you don't realize that to be gay is wrong than there is nothing that I can say that will make you change your minds. I tried to show you my point of veiw and I feel that I got it across. But, you can think what you want and not accept what is wrong and what is right, it's your choice. So, as adults, if you don't see what is wrong with being homosexual than I have no more words.




So, you're right because you're right. Anyone who disagrees with you is wrong, because you're right. Wow. It's all so clear to me now. You really did put your point across well. Thanks.
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iverson_boss
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PostPosted: 01.14.2005 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not that I'm right, (but which I am Very Happy ) it's that it's morally right.
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PostPosted: 01.14.2005 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Six of one, half-a-dozen of the other.
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