Flipside Movie Emporium Forum Index Flipside Movie Emporium
Discussion Forums Locked & Archived for Browsing
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Neverending War?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
 
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Flipside Movie Emporium Forum Index -> Random Insanity
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Danny Baldwin
Studio Exec


Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 1354
Location: San Diego, CA

PostPosted: 03.11.2005 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only they stuck first. There's the difference.
_________________
Danny Baldwin

View My Reviews
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
beltmann
Studio Exec


Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 2341
Location: West Bend, WI

PostPosted: 03.11.2005 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danny Baldwin wrote:
Only they stuck first. There's the difference.


That's one interpretation of events, based on a specific point-of-view--and it's an interpretation they would no doubt reject. Why would they target America? Because they believed that we were misusing our global influence and exploiting less powerful nations for selfish gain. In other words, they believed our actions were a direct and corrupt attack on their rights and values; they believe we struck first. You and I can disagree with their assessment--and I'm sure we agree that their response was immoral and inexcusable--but in order to effectively address the situation, we have to accurately understand their point-of-view as well as our own. Instead, the White House seems intent on turning the war into a good-versus-evil cartoon, completely disregarding the true complexity of the situation.



Eric
_________________
"When I was in Barcelona they showed pornography on regular television. I'm assuming it's the same way in Mexico since they also speak Spanish." - IMDb user comment
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
the night watchman
Studio Exec


Joined: 27 Jun 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Dark, run-down shack by the graveyard.

PostPosted: 03.11.2005 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to clarify my position a little. I don't think an individual like bin Laden can be negotiated with and, more, shouldn't be negotiated with any more than Charles Manson. It has nothing to do with anyone being "worthy" or "deserving;" he and his generals are criminals and should be brought to justice. But as Andy said, "all human beings should have a voice." When a group doesn't have a voice, when it has no power, when it is under the thumb of unreachable, irresistible forces, the tactics of terrorism become its only weapon. The US, and the rest of the world, has to reach those individuals who are on the cusp of hatred. Obliterating cities and shrugging off civilian casualties is only going to prove to them what Al-Qaeda and other hostile organizations have already told them. The US has the right to defend itself, it is true; but this conflict is unlike either of the World Wars, unlike any kind of conflict dealing with borders and nations. As such, novel tactics need to be assessed, and if the Left is dragging it feet too much, the Right is simply being obtuse.
_________________
"If you're talking about censorship, and what things should be shown and what things shouldn't be shown, I've said that as an artist you have no social responsibility whatsoever."

-David Cronenberg
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
the night watchman
Studio Exec


Joined: 27 Jun 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Dark, run-down shack by the graveyard.

PostPosted: 03.11.2005 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danny Baldwin wrote:
Only they stuck first. There's the difference.




If you're referring to 9/11, Iraq and Iran never struck at all. Technically, neither did Afghanistan. And the Iraq War was "pre-emptive," remember? The biggest problem I have with Right regarding the war on terrorism is how easily it groups all Middle Eastern countries together, and sometimes all Moslems together, and says, "They done it! They're the enemy!" when it's clearly not that cut-and-dried.
_________________
"If you're talking about censorship, and what things should be shown and what things shouldn't be shown, I've said that as an artist you have no social responsibility whatsoever."

-David Cronenberg
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
beltmann
Studio Exec


Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 2341
Location: West Bend, WI

PostPosted: 03.11.2005 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the night watchman wrote:
The biggest problem I have with Right regarding the war on terrorism is how easily it groups all Middle Eastern countries together, and sometimes all Moslems together, and says, "They done it! They're the enemy!" when it's clearly not that cut-and-dried.


Agreed, and I'm glad that you specified the Right rather than the White House, because as much as I disagree with how Bush is handling the war on terrorism, I don't think he has lumped all ME nations together. In fact, I think he has gone out of his way to distinguish between the terrorists and Muslims in general. (His willingness to tolerate a high number of civilian deaths--not to mention Arab-American imprisonments--as collateral damage is another matter altogether.)



Eric
_________________
"When I was in Barcelona they showed pornography on regular television. I'm assuming it's the same way in Mexico since they also speak Spanish." - IMDb user comment
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
xAndyx
Director


Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 207
Location: Platteville, WI

PostPosted: 03.12.2005 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the night watchman wrote:
I don't think an individual like bin Laden can be negotiated with and, more, shouldn't be negotiated with any more than Charles Manson.




I agree. I did not mean to imply that we should negotiate with terrorist leaders, that is impossible. What people have to realize is like the Nazis in WW2 had the German people under its thumb of lies and propaganda, Terrorists have the Middle Eastern youth under its thumb. Growing up as a child it is easy to be impressed by the power of a strong leader. They are fed that we are evil and they are attacking the west to save themselves and their countries. Like it was said earlier, if we simply attack these countries we are only reaffirming to these people that we are the bad guys trying to take away their homes. We need to prove to them we are not out for that, and I don't see any way in which violence solves that issue.
_________________
One day you will look behind you and you will see we three, and on that day, you will repent, and we will send you to whatever god you wish.



-The Boondock Saints
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Jordanio
Camera Operator


Joined: 29 May 2004
Posts: 93
Location: West Bend

PostPosted: 03.13.2005 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to clarify something on the first page of this thread. When Andy referred to the "Utopian ideals of Marx", he wasn't exactly wrong: in order for Marx's true goal to be reached (perfect social-equality and the withering-away of any form of government), a utopian society would be necessary.



...



Alright, I will retreat into my turtle shell now.
_________________
www.myspace.com/jordanmuehlbauer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger
xAndyx
Director


Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 207
Location: Platteville, WI

PostPosted: 03.14.2005 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jordanio wrote:
When Andy referred to the "Utopian ideals of Marx", he wasn't exactly wrong: in order for Marx's true goal to be reached (perfect social-equality and the withering-away of any form of government), a utopian society would be necessary.




As I thought, but I didn't want to make a fool of myself. We can not let this thread die flipsiders! The problem is that most people on this board, including myself are liberals so we have no one to fight other than poor Danny. We need to draw in a more conservative audience somehow, just to crush them in the end ofcoarse.
_________________
One day you will look behind you and you will see we three, and on that day, you will repent, and we will send you to whatever god you wish.



-The Boondock Saints
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
matt header
Studio Exec


Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 623
Location: Milwaukee, WI

PostPosted: 03.14.2005 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where's Iversonboss? He could join in the conversation.
_________________
"I don't like talking to people I know, but strangers I have no problem with." -- Larry David, "Curb Your Enthusiasm"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Danny Baldwin
Studio Exec


Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 1354
Location: San Diego, CA

PostPosted: 03.15.2005 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

matt header wrote:
Where's Iversonboss? He could join in the conversation.


I was thinking the same thing.



I really haven't had time to respond to this, guys. Sorry...hopefully, soon. But, five hours of math homework aren't all that easy to avoid.
_________________
Danny Baldwin

View My Reviews
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
xAndyx
Director


Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 207
Location: Platteville, WI

PostPosted: 03.15.2005 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am awaiting round two Wink
_________________
One day you will look behind you and you will see we three, and on that day, you will repent, and we will send you to whatever god you wish.



-The Boondock Saints
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
xAndyx
Director


Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 207
Location: Platteville, WI

PostPosted: 03.21.2005 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Today our beloved Secretary of State is off in Asia trying to stop the world from developing atomic weapons. One thing that has always astonished me is the fact that we as a western power are allowed to posses nuclear weapons along with out allies, but the rest of the world is told that if they develop such a program the will be exterminated from the world economy, and even attacked. I understand that the aim is to keep weapons from terrorists, but then why are we not taking steps to disarm aswell?
_________________
One day you will look behind you and you will see we three, and on that day, you will repent, and we will send you to whatever god you wish.



-The Boondock Saints
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
beltmann
Studio Exec


Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 2341
Location: West Bend, WI

PostPosted: 03.21.2005 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy, there's a phrase for this seemingly hypocritical mindset: American exceptionalism.
_________________
"When I was in Barcelona they showed pornography on regular television. I'm assuming it's the same way in Mexico since they also speak Spanish." - IMDb user comment
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
xAndyx
Director


Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 207
Location: Platteville, WI

PostPosted: 03.22.2005 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We cant even debate on here, no one disagrees, other than Danny... who has fled California to warn president Bush of my disgruntled attitude.
_________________
One day you will look behind you and you will see we three, and on that day, you will repent, and we will send you to whatever god you wish.



-The Boondock Saints
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Flipside Movie Emporium Forum Index -> Random Insanity All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
Page 3 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001-2007 phpBB Group