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Neverending War?
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xAndyx
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PostPosted: 03.03.2005 12:35 am    Post subject: Neverending War? Reply with quote

Is it me, but does this war on terrorism seem a wicked cycle that will never end until we reach Armageddon itself. It seems nearly every day we have a new enemy to our "devine rights" and we are asked to disrespect and degrade the people of that contry to bring them over to the side of "freedom and equality". Today the new Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice stated "we cannot be relaxed about Iran," and declined to rule out a U.S. attack. Will the new attacks and new wars ever stop or will it just continue forever as we find new countries to attack?
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beltmann
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PostPosted: 03.03.2005 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SCOTT RITTER: ATTACK OF IRAN IN JUNE



SCOTT RITTER SAYS U.S. PLANS JUNE ATTACK ON IRAN, ?COOKED? JAN. 30 IRAQI ELECTION RESULTS

By Mark Jensen



United for Peace of Pierce County (WA)

February 19, 2005



Scott Ritter, appearing with journalist Dahr Jamail yesterday in Washington State, dropped two shocking bombshells in a talk delivered to a packed house in Olympia?s Capitol Theater. The ex-Marine turned UNSCOM weapons inspector said that George W. Bush has "signed off" on plans to bomb Iran in June 2005, and claimed the U.S. manipulated the results of the recent Jan. 30 elections in Iraq.



Olympians like to call the Capitol Theater "historic," but it's doubtful whether the eighty-year-old edifice has ever been the scene of more portentous revelations.



The principal theme of Scott Ritter's talk was Americans? duty to protect the U.S. Constitution by taking action to bring an end to the illegal war in Iraq. But in passing, the former UNSCOM weapons inspector stunned his listeners with two pronouncements. Ritter said plans for a June attack on Iran have been submitted to President George W. Bush, and that the president has approved them. He also asserted that knowledgeable sources say U.S. officials "cooked" the results of the Jan. 30 elections in Iraq.



On Iran, Ritter said that President George W. Bush has received and signed off on orders for an aerial attack on Iran planned for June 2005. Its purported goal is the destruction of Iran?s alleged program to develop nuclear weapons, but Ritter said neoconservatives in the administration also expected that the attack would set in motion a chain of events leading to regime change in the oil-rich nation of 70 million -- a possibility Ritter regards with the greatest skepticism.



The former Marine also said that the Jan. 30 elections, which George W. Bush has called "a turning point in the history of Iraq, a milestone in the advance of freedom," were not so free after all. Ritter said that U.S. authorities in Iraq had manipulated the results in order to reduce the percentage of the vote received by the United Iraqi Alliance from 56% to 48%.



Asked by UFPPC's Ted Nation about this shocker, Ritter said an official involved in the manipulation was the source, and that this would soon be reported by a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist in a major metropolitan magazine -- an obvious allusion to New Yorker reporter Seymour M. Hersh.



On Jan. 17, the New Yorker posted an article by Hersh entitled The Coming Wars (New Yorker, January 24-31, 2005). In it, the well-known investigative journalist claimed that for the Bush administration, "The next strategic target [is] Iran." Hersh also reported that "The Administration has been conducting secret reconnaissance missions inside Iran at least since last summer." According to Hersh, "Defense Department civilians, under the leadership of Douglas Feith, have been working with Israeli planners and consultants to develop and refine potential nuclear, chemical-weapons, and missile targets inside Iran. . . . Strategists at the headquarters of the U.S. Central Command, in Tampa, Florida, have been asked to revise the military?s war plan, providing for a maximum ground and air invasion of Iran. . . . The hawks in the Administration believe that it will soon become clear that the Europeans? negotiated approach [to Iran] cannot succeed, and that at that time the Administration will act."



Scott Ritter said that although the peace movement failed to stop the war in Iraq, it had a chance to stop the expansion of the war to other nations like Iran and Syria. He held up the specter of a day when the Iraq war might be remembered as a relatively minor event that preceded an even greater conflagration.



Scott Ritter's talk was the culmination of a long evening devoted to discussion of Iraq and U.S. foreign policy. Before Ritter spoke, Dahr Jamail narrated a slide show on Iraq focusing on Fallujah. He showed more than a hundred vivid photographs taken in Iraq, mostly by himself. Many of them showed the horrific slaughter of civilians.



Dahr Jamail argued that U.S. mainstream media sources are complicit in the war and help sustain support for it by deliberately downplaying the truth about the devastation and death it is causing.



Jamail was, until recently, one of the few unembedded journalists in Iraq and one of the only independent ones. His reports have gained a substantial following and are available online at dahrjamailiraq.com.



Friday evening's event in Olympia was sponsored by South Puget Sound Community College's Student Activities Board, Veterans for Peace, 100 Thousand and Counting, Olympia Movement for Justice & Peace, United for Peace of Pierce County, and the Heroico Batallon de San Patricio and the BRICK student organization at South Puget Sound Community College.
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Danny Baldwin
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PostPosted: 03.03.2005 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wish I had more time to respond, and I really don't like leaving this statement by itself, but: air power is the only way we can ensure a future that is promising.
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xAndyx
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PostPosted: 03.03.2005 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danny Baldwin wrote:
I wish I had more time to respond, and I really don't like leaving this statement by itself, but: air power is the only way we can ensure a future that is promising.




I truly hope this is not a serious statement
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xAndyx
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PostPosted: 03.06.2005 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am still waiting for that educated response Danny, I am in the mood for a political debate.
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Danny Baldwin
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PostPosted: 03.08.2005 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright, well, here are my thoughts in a nutshell:



Here we have a president who does not know what he believes, a president who is trying to satisfy everyone when he should realize that he, in fact, won the election, fair and square.



Just days away from the second anniversary of the Iraqi War, we have accomplished quite a bit. Removing Sadaam and many other al-Qaeda terrorists, of course, top our accomplisments, there.



Still, we haven't done nearly enough. Most of this lies within the fact that George Bush is trying to conduct the war in his own kind of politically correct way. This is a war against terrorism, not a way to instantly bring peace to the Iraqi people.



As our troops die and beheading videos are released on the internet, we are sticking with the status-quo. Rumsfeld brilliantly executed the take-over of Iraq, but what are we doing now. We need to be sending a message to the terrorists.



That message is air-power. Right now, in my eyes, we are losing. We are losing grips in the Middle East. This is certainly debatable, but I see the most parallels between Iraq and World War II. Although liberal countries will allow themselves to underplay the thread of terrorism, this is a world war. The problem lies everywhere, but it is mainly in the Middle East.



We need to be leveling the cities in Iraq where the terrorists are. This will not only kill many of the breed of sub-humans, but send a message to others. It worked in World War II.



Is this a never-ending war? Not if conducted in the correct way. Reaching the correct way may be a challenge, yes, but I believe we can do it. If we gnaw away at the top of the most prominent terrorist organizations, an eventual collapse will most likely ensue.



There are still many battles we need to fight. Iraq is just the beginning, yes, but by no means would I call this war never-ending. I suppose the most important idea for the current administration to confront is: How are we supposed to install peace in the Middle East when we have yet to garner the ability to do so?



That said, I'm very happy that Kerry isn't in the White House, right now.
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beltmann
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PostPosted: 03.08.2005 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danny Baldwin wrote:
kill many of the breed of sub-humans


Hmmmm.....





Have fun, Andy.



Eric
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matt header
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PostPosted: 03.08.2005 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
We need to be leveling the cities in Iraq where the terrorists are. This will not only kill many of the breed of sub-humans, but send a message to others. It worked in World War II.





Perhaps you'll also recall that our actions in leveling most of the major cities in Germany led to a devastated economy, millions of innocent deaths, and a stratified nation with a wall that separated families and people for about forty years; or that our actions in leveling cities in Japan resulted in some of the most cataclysmic wartime massacres in history and that the fallout from the bombs we dropped would continue to affect, if not kill, Japanese civilians for decades to come.



But then they're sub-human so they deserved it, right?



There is a way to combat terrorism and instill peace in Iraq; it isn't a give-or-take situation. If we wage a war on terrorism by annihilating entire Iraqi cities, we have become the terrorists.



Quote:
If we gnaw away at the top of the most prominent terrorist organizations, an eventual collapse will most likely ensue.




I agree this is the course of action we should be taking -- directly targeting the most powerful terrorist organizations -- but do you think air power accomplishes that? It destroys Iraqi cities full of innocent people and almost inevitably fuels the motivation of the terrorists even more.



Hope I didn't take away any of your points, Andy...
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beltmann
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PostPosted: 03.08.2005 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

matt header wrote:
If we wage a war on terrorism by annihilating entire Iraqi cities, we have become the terrorists.



I think you're overlooking that wonderful concept called American exceptionalism, which magnificently justifies all sorts of things from military operations to economic terrorism to corporate exploitation. What makes an action moral, you see, is its status as an American action.



Eric
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the night watchman
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PostPosted: 03.08.2005 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danny Baldwin wrote:


We need to be leveling the cities in Iraq where the terrorists are. This will not only kill many of the breed of sub-humans, but send a message to others.




This could also be re-written: "We need to be leveling the cities in America where the infidels are. This will not only kill many of the breed of sub-humans, but send a message to others."
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beltmann
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PostPosted: 03.08.2005 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the night watchman wrote:
This could also be re-written: "We need to be leveling the cities in America where the infidels are. This will not only kill many of the breed of sub-humans, but send a message to others."


Only America gets to assign connotations, you subversive Commie.



Eric
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the night watchman
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PostPosted: 03.09.2005 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

beltmann wrote:
you subversive Commie.




Power to the people! 'Scuse me while I go watch a John Waters movie now.
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xAndyx
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PostPosted: 03.10.2005 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, luckily for you Danny my boy my computer crashed and could not reply until now, but please don't let this fool you, I will not let your comments go without a fight. Personally I don?t know how, as a living human being, you could dare say we should go bomb Iraqi cities to kill the "sub-humans". Who are you to be calling any man woman or child subhuman? If you were born an Iraqi would you consider yourself subhuman, no. Do you think it is your right to classify a specific group of as deserving of death?



Secondly, how can you think that leveling cities will break the will of people? Hello, you are American, did you not see and feel the sense of patriotism after 9/11. By bombing cities we are only provoking them more and heightening the problem. I don?t care how many terrorists you kill you will never, ever, end terrorism. The thought of a terror free environment is as much of an illusion and the utopian socialism of Marx.



I end with a simple statement, I hope you are happy sleeping in your nice warm bed tonight and feel important as people like you run our country in the ground and kill innocent civilians because they, like you, would rather see another holocaust then peace.
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Danny Baldwin
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PostPosted: 03.10.2005 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

xAndyx wrote:
If you were born an Iraqi would you consider yourself subhuman, no. Do you think it is your right to classify a specific group of as deserving of death?


I was calling the al-Qaedas sub-humans. Innocent deaths are to be expected, yes, but terrorism on the rise will result in more deaths than our bombing selected terrorist hot-beds would.



xAndyx wrote:
By bombing cities we are only provoking them more and heightening the problem. I don?t care how many terrorists you kill you will never, ever, end terrorism. The thought of a terror free environment is as much of an illusion and the utopian socialism of Marx.


First off, Marx hated utopian socialists, and believed them to be an impure and illogical form of his breed. Secondly, I think we can agree that terrorism against the United States has exponentially increased, over time. We cannot end terror, but we can make it less powerful



xAndyx wrote:
I end with a simple statement, I hope you are happy sleeping in your nice warm bed tonight and feel important


And I hope you do, too, because you are the one underestimating the threat. You are the one who believes that the United States should not defend itself from the rampaging fantatical Islamist terrorists. Liberalism has corrupted us to the extent in which we are blind.
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xAndyx
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PostPosted: 03.10.2005 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danny Baldwin wrote:
I was calling the al-Qaedas sub-humans. Innocent deaths are to be expected, yes, but terrorism on the rise will result in more deaths than our bombing selected terrorist hot-beds would.





I have seen death to US soldiers but I have not seen major terrorist attacks on US citizens minus hostages. I want to see how you can compare the losses of our people to their civilians.



Danny Baldwin wrote:
And I hope you do, too, because you are the one underestimating the threat. You are the one who believes that the United States should not defend itself from the rampaging fantatical Islamist terrorists. Liberalism has corrupted us to the extent in which we are blind.




This is untrue, I understand that the US has to defend ourselves, but tell me how your theory of bombing every terrorist town directly affects the defense of the United States? Yes you may kill some terrorists, but most of them are not just sitting in a city waiting to be bombed. Your more than likely just going to start a holy war which will result in hightened terrorism and weaken our defense!
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