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Neverending War?
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xAndyx
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PostPosted: 03.10.2005 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did I mention how much I love talking about politics Smile.
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beltmann
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PostPosted: 03.10.2005 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hang on for a second, guys. Lemme pull up my lawn chair and grab a lemonade.



Eric
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Danny Baldwin
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PostPosted: 03.10.2005 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

xAndyx wrote:
I have seen death to US soldiers but I have not seen major terrorist attacks on US citizens minus hostages. I want to see how you can compare the losses of our people to their civilians.


But can you honestly say that, had we not unleashed this war, and kept with the status quo, that we wouldn't have seen a major attack, in the future? It could've easily happened, and we needed to take pre-emptive action. The current count of deaths under Sadaam is nearing 500,000. We could easily experience that ten-fold, if, God forbid, al-Qaeda was able to get a bomb into the U.S. and use it.



xAndyx wrote:
This is untrue, I understand that the US has to defend ourselves, but tell me how your theory of bombing every terrorist town directly affects the defense of the United States? Yes you may kill some terrorists, but most of them are not just sitting in a city waiting to be bombed. Your more than likely just going to start a holy war which will result in hightened terrorism and weaken our defense!


They already believe it to be a Holy War. And it is one. Not one against Islam, but one against fanatical fundamental Islamist terrorists. I'm not saying bomb every terrorist town, but, instead, the Fallujahs, the pockets of terror where we can make significant progress. The most important thing is to send a message to them.
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xAndyx
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PostPosted: 03.10.2005 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danny Baldwin wrote:
The most important thing is to send a message to them.




And what message is this....anything you can do I can do better?
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Danny Baldwin
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PostPosted: 03.10.2005 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

xAndyx wrote:
And what message is this....anything you can do I can do better?


That we are not afraid to go after them.



I don't see any validity in the "we are terrorists" debate.
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xAndyx
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PostPosted: 03.10.2005 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danny Baldwin wrote:


I don't see any validity in the "we are terrorists" debate.




Alright, if you see no validity in this debate, answer me this. You are saying we need to intimidate these people by flexing our millitary muscle and showing them fear to its greatest extent so that the will not mess with our country and its goals any longer. If that is not the same exact thing that the terrorists are attempting to do, please correct me.
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Danny Baldwin
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PostPosted: 03.10.2005 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xAndyx wrote:
Alright, if you see no validity in this debate, answer me this. You are saying we need to intimidate these people by flexing our millitary muscle and showing them fear to its greatest extent so that the will not mess with our country and its goals any longer. If that is not the same exact thing that the terrorists are attempting to do, please correct me.


Here is the difference. The terrorists have brainwashed themselves. They will do anything to futher their cause and kill Americans. We cannot rationalize with them. They are not human beings. They are monsters. The only way to solve the problem is war, as they will not talk. We have exhausted all oppurtunities to act without great force.
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beltmann
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PostPosted: 03.10.2005 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danny Baldwin wrote:
Here is the difference. The terrorists have brainwashed themselves. They will do anything to futher their cause and kill Americans. We cannot rationalize with them. They are not human beings. They are monsters. The only way to solve the problem is war, as they will not talk. We have exhausted all oppurtunities to act without great force.


I'm fairly certain I have seen these exact same phrasings on Al-Jazeera, with only slight modifications.



Eric
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beltmann
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PostPosted: 03.10.2005 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danny Baldwin wrote:
They are not human beings. They are monsters.


Danny, in all seriousness I find that terminology offensive and counterproductive. I'm not justifying their deplorable methods, but it's obvious that they aren't just unthinking monsters seeking to harm America merely for amusement's sake. If they have set their sights on America, it's because they feel there is a valid reason. It might be easier to pretend they are just violent animals, but I feel we could better advance the cause of peace by trying to understand their claims rather than simply ignore them.



Eric
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Danny Baldwin
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PostPosted: 03.10.2005 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

beltmann wrote:
I'm fairly certain I have seen these exact same phrasings on Al-Jazeera, with only slight modifications.


Only, I think any logical person can realize correct usage.



beltmann wrote:
If they have set their sights on America, it's because they feel there is a valid reason. It might be easier to pretend they are just violent animals, but I feel we could better advance the cause of peace by trying to understand their claims rather than simply ignore them.


Do you mean to imply that they actually are deserving of negotiation?
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the night watchman
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PostPosted: 03.11.2005 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danny Baldwin wrote:


beltmann wrote:
If they have set their sights on America, it's because they feel there is a valid reason. It might be easier to pretend they are just violent animals, but I feel we could better advance the cause of peace by trying to understand their claims rather than simply ignore them.


Do you mean to imply that they actually are deserving of negotiation?




I think we owe it to ourselves to honestly and objectively understand them, rather than demonize them and dismiss their actions as thoughtless, superficial, primative, or childish. This is not the same thing as excusing or even forgiving them.
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beltmann
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PostPosted: 03.11.2005 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the night watchman wrote:
I think we owe it to ourselves to honestly and objectively understand them, rather than demonize them and dismiss their actions as thoughtless, superficial, primative, or childish. This is not the same thing as excusing or even forgiving them.


What he said.



Eric
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matt header
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PostPosted: 03.11.2005 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Only, I think any logical person can realize correct usage.




If one man's terrorist is another man's patriot then one man's logic is another man's absurdity. If you had grown up in Iraq instead of here in the States, you would most likely see the logic in Al-Jazeera's arguments, if not necessarily condone how they present those arguments.
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beltmann
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PostPosted: 03.11.2005 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the difference. The Americans have brainwashed themselves. They will do anything to further their cause and kill Muslims. We cannot rationalize with them. They are not human beings. They are monsters. The only way to solve the problem is war, as they will not talk. We have exhausted all opportunities to act without great force.



Propaganda is propaganda is propaganda.



Eric
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xAndyx
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Joined: 28 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 03.11.2005 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

beltmann wrote:
Here is the difference. The Americans have brainwashed themselves. They will do anything to further their cause and kill Muslims. We cannot rationalize with them. They are not human beings. They are monsters. The only way to solve the problem is war, as they will not talk. We have exhausted all opportunities to act without great force.




Exactly. The people of this board have said it perfectly. Your opinion on the other side in this conflict is all due to your frame of referense. Each side sees the other as mindless barbarians out for either global conquest as the Muslims see, or a world of terror and violence as we see. By stiring up this argument and taking it to extremes you do not stop the problem, you highten, nearly to the point that it can not return. Yes I think that these people are worthy of negotiation, why shouldn't they be? They are not any different than you or me other than the fact that they were raised under different conditions. All human beings have a heart, all human beings have a soul, and all human beings should have a voice.
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