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Jim Harper
Director
Joined: 29 Feb 2004
Posts: 226
Location: Totnes, Devon, UK
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 Posted: 01.10.2005 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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It was just the colour contrast cutting through my thrombophlebitic haze...I didn't read it, just in case I end up watching the film. When my retinas have recovered, of course.  |
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beltmann
Studio Exec
Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 2341
Location: West Bend, WI
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| Posted: 01.11.2005 12:22 am Post subject: |
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| the night watchman wrote: | | I think the movie effectively drives its point home about the shocking and debasing nature of this type of male sexuality on an emotional level as well as an intellectual level, even if the two can?t be adequately explained in the same breath... I think that the movie does offer more psychological insight -- if a grim one to a specific personality -- than it seems to on the surface.[/color] |
I was engaged intellectually by the film, no doubt; while I noticed this dominant/passive dynamic at play, I must concede that I didn't think about it nearly as much as you did, which is perhaps a failing on my part. Still, I think the reason the movie fails emotionally and psychologically for me has something to do with its focus on "this type of male sexuality."
Whether they are Naturalist or sexual, I think we can agree that Dumont works through his ideas with precision. It's not that I find fault with his methodology or craft, it's that I ultimately disagree with his philosophical/psychological conclusions. The sort of "shocking and debasing" male sexuality that he explores--which I would argue is precisely what makes Twentynine Palms inextricable from Naturalism--is, for me at least, finally more of an intellectual construct than a useful barometer of actual, real-life male behavior. I admired Dumont's skill throughout, but in the end I felt like I had followed a theorem proof that ultimately has limited purpose or application. It exists in a vacuum of gender theory.
I realize that this is a matter of taste and of personal philosophy; after all, my accusation is similar to the gripes people had with Ararat--and that's one of my favorite films of the last five years.
Eric
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"When I was in Barcelona they showed pornography on regular television. I'm assuming it's the same way in Mexico since they also speak Spanish." - IMDb user comment
Last edited by beltmann on 01.11.2005 1:02 am; edited 1 time in total |
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beltmann
Studio Exec
Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 2341
Location: West Bend, WI
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| Posted: 01.11.2005 12:39 am Post subject: |
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| the night watchman wrote: | | Like Eric, I also owe at least some of my affection for the science fiction genre to my dad. I got him The Day the Earth Stood Still for Christmas, his favorite movie |
My father also is a huge Day the Earth Stood Still fan, and if it weren't for his influence I'm sure I never would have caught the "Klaatu, Barada, Nikto" reference in Army of Darkness.
Except for the classic monster movies, he's not much of a horror freak. I seem to have more interest in that department--although not nearly as much as you have--and he's also not remotely interested in foreign fare. I guess that's where we differ the most.
Eric
_________________
"When I was in Barcelona they showed pornography on regular television. I'm assuming it's the same way in Mexico since they also speak Spanish." - IMDb user comment |
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beltmann
Studio Exec
Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 2341
Location: West Bend, WI
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| Posted: 01.11.2005 12:42 am Post subject: |
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| Michael B. Scrutchin wrote: |
Harold & Kumar is great fun. The sing-along to Wilson Phillips' "Hold On" is transcendent. |
Okay, I'm adding to this to my queue. I had sworn off new movies for the new year--at least for a couple months--but we all know that ain't gonna happen.
Eric
_________________
"When I was in Barcelona they showed pornography on regular television. I'm assuming it's the same way in Mexico since they also speak Spanish." - IMDb user comment |
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beltmann
Studio Exec
Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 2341
Location: West Bend, WI
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| Posted: 01.11.2005 12:49 am Post subject: |
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| Michael B. Scrutchin wrote: |
I can't adequately explain my "blah" reaction to Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter... and Spring -- a film almost universally praised. It's beautiful, sure, and I kinda dug the serene pacing and atmosphere (even if it never entranced me). But I never connected with it on any level, and I found the young monk character actively annoying (in all stages of his life), and that probably tainted my view of the overall picture. Then again, I wasn't in the best mood when I watched it, and that may have affected my response to it. Maybe I'll give it another shot.
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Bummer. I can only say that I was, indeed, entranced throughout. Above I complained that Twentynine Palms doesn't amount to much other than an intellectual construct that unpacks with the precision of geometry. I guess we could argue the same is true about Spring..., but perhaps because I was more sympathetic towards its philosophical aims, I enjoyed the unpacking a great deal more. Is it strange to link those two films according to their meticulous visual composition? In each case, I think understanding the film largely depends upon understanding its use of space, color, and camera position.
Eric
_________________
"When I was in Barcelona they showed pornography on regular television. I'm assuming it's the same way in Mexico since they also speak Spanish." - IMDb user comment |
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Danny Baldwin
Studio Exec
Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 1354
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: 01.11.2005 1:07 am Post subject: |
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| beltmann wrote: | | Michael B. Scrutchin wrote: | | Harold & Kumar is great fun. The sing-along to Wilson Phillips' "Hold On" is transcendent. |
Okay, I'm adding to this to my queue. I had sworn off new movies for the new year--at least for a couple months--but we all know that ain't gonna happen. |
You'll only regret getting this one, Beltmann. I'm in the target audience and I despised it.
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Danny Baldwin
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the night watchman
Studio Exec
Joined: 27 Jun 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Dark, run-down shack by the graveyard.
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| Posted: 01.11.2005 1:20 am Post subject: |
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| Danny Baldwin wrote: | | beltmann wrote: | | Michael B. Scrutchin wrote: | | Harold & Kumar is great fun. The sing-along to Wilson Phillips' "Hold On" is transcendent. |
Okay, I'm adding to this to my queue. I had sworn off new movies for the new year--at least for a couple months--but we all know that ain't gonna happen. |
You'll only regret getting this one, Beltmann. I'm in the target audience and I despised it. |
Oddly, I usually avoid movies like Harold & Kumar, but I thought it was a riot.
_________________
"If you're talking about censorship, and what things should be shown and what things shouldn't be shown, I've said that as an artist you have no social responsibility whatsoever."
-David Cronenberg |
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Michael Scrutchin
Studio President
Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 832
Location: Pearland, TX
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| Posted: 01.11.2005 1:23 am Post subject: |
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| Danny Baldwin wrote: |
You'll only regret getting this one, Beltmann. I'm in the target audience and I despised it. |
Most critics liked it, so I think there's a good chance Eric will enjoy it. What'd you find so offensive about it, Danny?
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Michael Scrutchin
Flipside Movie Emporium
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the night watchman
Studio Exec
Joined: 27 Jun 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Dark, run-down shack by the graveyard.
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| Posted: 01.11.2005 1:34 am Post subject: |
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| beltmann wrote: | | I think the reason the movie fails emotionally and psychologically for me has something to do with its focus on "this type of male sexuality." I ultimately disagree with his philosophical/psychological conclusions. The sort of "shocking and debasing" male sexuality that he explores--which I would argue is precisely what makes Twentynine Palms inextricable from Naturalism--is, for me at least, finally more of an intellectual construct than a useful barometer of actual, real-life male behavior. I felt like I had followed a theorem proof that ultimately has limited purpose or application. It exists in a vacuum of gender theory. |
It might. I hope so. And yet, although this may seem a tad misanthropic or misandric, I can't say I truly think it does.
_________________
"If you're talking about censorship, and what things should be shown and what things shouldn't be shown, I've said that as an artist you have no social responsibility whatsoever."
-David Cronenberg |
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the night watchman
Studio Exec
Joined: 27 Jun 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Dark, run-down shack by the graveyard.
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| Posted: 01.11.2005 1:38 am Post subject: |
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What did you think of Twentynine Palms, Michael? I seem to recall your reaction was generally positive (if horrified)? What did you get out of it?
_________________
"If you're talking about censorship, and what things should be shown and what things shouldn't be shown, I've said that as an artist you have no social responsibility whatsoever."
-David Cronenberg |
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beltmann
Studio Exec
Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 2341
Location: West Bend, WI
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| Posted: 01.11.2005 1:38 am Post subject: |
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| Danny Baldwin wrote: |
You'll only regret getting this one, Beltmann. I'm in the target audience and I despised it. |
If I survived The Girl Next Door, I'm sure I can take it. 
Seriously, I'll give anything a chance. If I snubbed certain kinds of films, I never would experienced the pleasure that is A Guy Thing.
Eric
_________________
"When I was in Barcelona they showed pornography on regular television. I'm assuming it's the same way in Mexico since they also speak Spanish." - IMDb user comment |
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beltmann
Studio Exec
Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 2341
Location: West Bend, WI
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| Posted: 01.11.2005 1:40 am Post subject: |
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| the night watchman wrote: | | What did you think of Twentynine Palms, Michael? I seem to recall your reaction was generally positive (if horrified)? What did you get out of it? |
I've been waiting, too. The water's fine, Michael!
Eric
_________________
"When I was in Barcelona they showed pornography on regular television. I'm assuming it's the same way in Mexico since they also speak Spanish." - IMDb user comment |
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Danny Baldwin
Studio Exec
Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 1354
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: 01.11.2005 1:40 am Post subject: |
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| Michael B. Scrutchin wrote: | | Most critics liked it, so I think there's a good chance Eric will enjoy it. What'd you find so offensive about it, Danny? |
The whole exercise, to me, seemed to be devoid of any wit . As far as I'm concerned, it's just an R-rated version of juvenile PG-13 gross-out toilet humor, and a desperate commercial for White Castle. I guess the burger joint doesn't have too much faith in its customers' senses of humor. Even Yu-Gi-Oh!: The Movie sold its product with a little more excitement; Harold and Kumar just seems to be a "Mommy, look what I can say! Look what I can do!" in a movie industry that is already clogged up by such material. To its credit, the group of "friends" Harold finds himself hanging out with at Princeton is funny. The "Battle-Shit" afterwards, on the other hand, is not.
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Danny Baldwin
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beltmann
Studio Exec
Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 2341
Location: West Bend, WI
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| Posted: 01.11.2005 1:43 am Post subject: |
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| the night watchman wrote: | | It might. I hope so. And yet, although this may seem a tad misanthropic or misandric, I can't say I truly think it does. |
Well, I did say limited purpose... although the movie bears zero relationship to any kind of human behavior I've ever encountered, I'm open to the possibility that such psychological states exist. I'm not convinced, though, that their mere existence automatically validates a film that deconstructs them.
Eric
_________________
"When I was in Barcelona they showed pornography on regular television. I'm assuming it's the same way in Mexico since they also speak Spanish." - IMDb user comment |
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Danny Baldwin
Studio Exec
Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 1354
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: 01.11.2005 1:49 am Post subject: |
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| beltmann wrote: | | If I survived The Girl Next Door, I'm sure I can take it. |
My top ten of the year will be a nice response to this comment. No rebuddle necessary now.
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Danny Baldwin
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